Mr. O'DONNELL. I don't think she knew anything about an autopsy. The question is where the body went. We didn't tell her there was to be an autopsy. And the choice was Walter Reed or Bethesda. He being a Navy man, she picked Bethesda.

Mr. Specter.

She chose Bethesda, as between Bethesda and Walter Reed?
Mr. O'DONNELL. She did.

Mr. Specter.

Who made the decision there would be an autopsy, if you know?
Mr. O'DONNELL. I don't know who made the decision. I just think we all agreed--we arrived at Bethesda. The Attorney General was there. I think it was just our assumption that this was a necessary part.

Mr. Specter.

How did you get from Andrews Air Force Base to Bethesda Naval Hospital?
Mr. O'DONNELL. By car.

Mr. Specter.

About what time did you arrive at Andrews, if you recall?
Mr. O'DONNELL. I don't remember. It was dark. That is all I do recall.

Mr. Specter.

About how long was the car trip from Andrews to Bethesda?
Mr. O'DONNELL. I would think 45 minutes.

Mr. Specter.

And what did you do after your arrival at Bethesda?
Mr. O'DONNELL. When we arrived at Bethesda, we went immediately to some room, reception room, where the family was.

Mr. Specter.

And how long did you stay there?
Mr. O'DONNELL. We stayed there, I would think, until 3 or 4 in the morning. We wanted to stay there until Mrs. Kennedy got back to the house.
We drove back to the White House with her.

Mr. Specter.

At what time did you leave her at the White House?
Mr. O'DONNELL. I would think 4 or 5 in the morning.

Mr. Specter.

After that, did you go home?
Mr. O'DONNELL. I did.

Mr. Specter.

Who all was present with the family at Bethesda?
Mr. O'DONNELL. There was Mr. O'Brien, Mr. Powers--I don't recollect anybody else outside the family.

Mr. Specter.

Who from the family was there?
Mr. O'DONNELL. As I remember, Jean Kennedy, the Attorney General and his wife, I think Pat and Eunice. There were some other people. Really there were two--there was one room inside, in which they were in, and there was one out in the reception.

Mr. Specter.

What was on the balance of the itinerary in Texas after the planned luncheon at the Trade Mart at Dallas on November 22?
Mr. O'DONNELL. We were leaving Dallas and going to Austin, and Governor Connally had arranged one or two receptions, and then a large dinner in the evening, a fundraising dinner, and then the President was going to depart from there to the Vice President's ranch, and stay with them through Saturday, and then come back to Washington.

Mr. Specter.

And was the estimated time of arrival at the LBJ Ranch about 10 p.m., on the evening of November 22?
Mr. O'DONNELL. That would be about right.

Mr. Specter.

With the plan then being to depart for Washington on the 23d, Saturday?
Mr. O'DONNELL. Yes.

Mr. Specter.

What was the President's attitude, in a general way, about Presidential protection--that is, President Kennedy's attitude about Presidential protection, Mr. O'Donnell?
Mr. O'DONNELL. Well, his general attitude was that the Secret Service--that there was no protection available to a President of a democracy such as the United States from a demented person who was willing to risk his own life; that if someone wanted to kill a President of the United States, who in a sense wears two hats--he is the leader of a political party as well as our Chief Executive and by the nature of our system must mingle with crowds, must ride through our cities, and must expose himself to the American people that the Secret Service would not be, other than the protection that they provide by the screening processes prior to the actual carrying out of a political trip---would not be able to guarantee 100 percent protection, considering one has to mingle with

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