as Honest Joe, that has a second-hand tool and pawnshop down on Elm Street, and everyone around there knows him. He was leaning on the car looking over in the direction of the ramp there at the police station. And we were just waiting around there.
And for a few minutes I was talking to one of the police officers that was on duty up there in that area. And he had made the remark, "talking about open windows, I see one open across the street over there" at a building across the street.
I looked over there. I didn't see any activity at the window. And we had walked out into the reception area of the executive office of the Chief of Police there when this same police officer said that he just heard that Oswald had got shot in the stomach in the basement by Jack Rubin, as I understood at that time, R-u-b-i-n--who was supposed to run a night club.
Inspector Kelley and I then went just as hurriedly as we could to the basement.

Mr. Stern.

As I understand it, Mr. Sorrels, you covered all the relevant information from this point of time on with Mr. Hubert yesterday.

Mr. Sorrels.

Yes. And actually back just a little bit.

Mr. Stern.

Is there anything that has occurred to you since your interview with Mr. Hubert that you would like to add now, to amplify anything you said yesterday to him?

Mr. Sorrels.

We were trying to establish something about the time yesterday morning that this transpired and so forth. And I could not fix any exact time.
But knowing the fact that Oswald, I believe, is reported to have been shot at 11:21, I believe it is, and the fact that when we got into the basement of the City Hall there at a time when Oswald was still on the floor there, and was being given artificial respiration, as I said yesterday, and I immediately called my headquarters office in Washington and told them about Oswald being shot by Jack Rubin, a night club operator. And they asked me, of course, to get additional information and call them back.
And from that telephone call, which went through very rapidly, I went back upstairs--didn't tarry there at all. And Oswald was still there when I left and went back upstairs to Captain Fritz' office, because my thought was to talk to this man Jack Rubin as fast as I could.
Captain Fritz was not there. They said he went to the hospital. I asked where Ruby was. They said he was up on the fifth floor. I said I would like to talk to him. And I was sent with an officer to the jail elevator, went right on up there. So----

Mr. Stern.

Have you been able to establish the time of your phone call to Deputy Chief----

Mr. Sorrels.

No, I have not been able to establish it. But after thinking the thing over, and the fact that Oswald was still there at the time this call was made, I would say that that phone call was probably made between 11:25 and 11:30, I would say.

Mr. Stern.

Fine.
Mr. Sorrels had you discussed with any official of the Dallas Police the plans to move Oswald during a scheduled daylight hour, before the move was made?

Mr. Sorrels.

When I heard that he was supposed to be moved at 10 o'clock in the morning, I said to Captain Fritz--and as I recall this conversation--I said to him, "Captain, I wouldn't move that man at an announced time. I would take him out at 3 or 4 o'clock in the morning, when there is nobody around."
And Captain Fritz said, "Well, the chief has gone along with these people," talking about the press and television people, and said that he wanted to continue going along with them and cooperating with them all he can. And that was all that was said about that.
I did not make that suggestion, or have a conversation like that with Chief Curry, as I recall, because I did not want to appear that I was trying to tell them how to run their business.

Mr. Stern.

What were conditions like in the third floor corridor of police headquarters from Friday through Sunday?

Mr. Sorrels.

Mr. Stern, you would almost have to be there to see it, to actually realize the conditions. The press and the television people just, as the

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