Mr. Ball.

Had they left the third floor on the 24th?

Mr. Fritz.

A lot of them had; yes, sir. A lot of them had, and were downstairs in the basement.

Mr. Ball.

How about the television cameras?

Mr. Fritz.

I noticed--television cameras, they were downstairs too.

Mr. Ball.

They weren't up on the third floor?

Mr. Fritz.

I don't believe--there could have been one or two of them left up there, I don't think many of them were still up there.

Mr. Ball.

Most of them were downstairs?

Mr. Fritz.

Most of them were downstairs. I wouldn't say there weren't any up there because I don't think there was any time when there wasn't at least a few of them up there.

Mr. Ball.

Now, when you went down the jail elevator and you said you got out and went forward to see if everything was secure. What did you mean by that?

Mr. Fritz.

Well, I meant if everything, it was all right for us to go to our car with him. We didn't want to leave the jail office with him unless everything was all right because as long as we were in the jail office we could put him back in the elevator and if everything wasn't all right, I didn't want to come out with him.

Mr. Ball.

And you went ahead, didn't you?

Mr. Fritz.

Yes, sir; first Lieutenant Swain and then I went out and then the other officers followed me with the prisoner.

Mr. Ball.

Was the car there you were going to get in?

Mr. Fritz.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Had you reached the car yet?

Mr. Fritz.

I was just in the act of reaching for the door to open the back door, I looked at that picture, and it doesn't show the exact distance I was from the car but I couldn't have been any further than reaching distance.

Mr. Ball.

When you left, or after Ruby shot Oswald, he was taken upstairs, wasn't he?

Mr. Fritz.

Yes, sir; he was. He was first carried into the Jail office, you mean Ruby?

Mr. Ball.

Ruby, when Ruby shot Oswald?

Mr. Fritz.

Oswald was carried into the jail office and put on the floor there. Ruby was brought into the jail office. Now I believe that Ruby was brought into the jail office after Oswald, I believe Oswald was already on the floor or behind there because I know the officers had taken Ruby upstairs went behind me and I saw them pass behind me with him to the jail.

Mr. Ball.

Did you talk to Ruby?

Mr. Fritz.

Did I talk to him; no, sir; I talked to him later.

Mr. Mccloy.

I wonder if at this time you would want a little recess?

Mr. Fritz.

No, sir; I am comfortable.

Mr. Mccloy.

I think we kept the chief on a little bit too long this morning.

Mr. Fritz.

If it is all right with you.

Mr. Ball.

Did you talk to Ruby at that time?

Mr. Fritz.

No, sir; not at that time.

Mr. Ball.

Later?

Mr. Fritz.

I talked to him later, probably an hour later. I guess I have the exact time here if you need it.

Mr. Ball.

What did Ruby say to you, do you have the exact time?

Mr. Fritz.

Well, he told me, I told him, I, of course, wanted to know something about premeditation because I was thinking about the trial too and I told him I wanted to ask him some questions and he said, well, he first said, "I don't want to talk to you. I want to talk to my lawyers," and he said, I believe he told me too that he had been advised by a lawyer, and I asked him some other question and he said, "Now if you will level with me and you won't make me look like a fool in front of my lawyers I will talk to you."
I didn't ask him one way or the other, but I did ask him some questions and he told me that he shot him, told me that he was all torn up about the Presidential killing, that he felt terribly sorry for Mrs. Kennedy. He didn't want to see her to have to come back to Dallas for a trial, and a lot of other things like that.