Mr. Griffin.

How did his turnover compare to that of other employers in the business?

Mr. Palmer.

Well, it was great, the rate of turnover, until he would eventually hire an entertainer who was either capable of standing the pace that he set in his club, or until he hired someone who wanted to settle down in Dallas and was willing to work for a little less and perhaps a little more frequently per night.
Another of Jack's possible infringements on AGVA rules and regulations, and it was never clarified in AGVA, was his continuous show policy. This made his finding a new master of ceremonies, whenever it was necessary, virtually impossible, because there are few emcees who can go on and on all evening.

Mr. Griffin.

Did AGVA have a policy against continuous shows?

Mr. Palmer.

Not at the outset. There was confusion in this respect between the New York office and the west coast office. I remember Mazzie's office and Jackie Bright's office Bright was ousted and Bobby Faye made several directives that were countermanded by the west coast, and the union became rather decentralized in its authority.

Mr. Griffin.

But eventually did somebody who had jurisdiction over Dallas issue a rule of some sort that there should be no continuous shows?

Mr. Palmer.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Who was that?

Mr. Palmer.

I issued it at the direction of Bobby Faye of New York City, who was the executive administrator.

Mr. Griffin.

Was that before or after the President was assassinated?

Mr. Palmer.

Before.

Mr. Griffin.

How long before?

Mr. Palmer.

Probably about 6 months before.

Mr. Griffin.

What was Jack Ruby's response to that rule?

Mr. Palmer.

Jack liked to pretend and let me know he was pretending to comply fully. Agreeably, I should say. His mode of compliance again was only a halfhearted thing, and he did take breaks which then split the show into four shows a night. But I informed him that the breaks weren't adequate; they should be, longer.

Mr. Griffin.

How long were the breaks?

Mr. Palmer.

They were supposed to be 40 minutes. He was taking a 20- to 30-minute break. I had to rely almost entirely on the emcees to clock this, other than sit in the club myself. When I sat in the club myself, they occurred. When I didn't, I knew they weren't occurring, so I had to rely on the emcees. And the emcees relied on Jack Ruby for employment, and often were not too stringent in clocking the breaks. So this, with the affidavits of B-drinking could be considered as creating a little pressure on Jack.

Mr. Griffin.

You mentioned before that some of the employees couldn't take the pace that Jack set. What did you have in mind when you referred to pace?

Mr. Palmer.

I meant strictly from a legal standpoint. The continuous show policy; the idea of being on the premises at all times; plus Jack's personality was not constantly one way or the other. It was a highly fluctuating thing and often led to misunderstandings.
Many masters of ceremony quit because they felt Jack was directing from the floor, which he has a right to do, but not to the embarrassment of an entertainer.

Mr. Griffin.

How would he direct from the floor?

Mr. Palmer.

He would indicate on occasion that a dancer midway through her dance should cut it short, or the master of ceremonies should cut a specific routine of his short, often while he was doing the routine.

Mr. Griffin.

Were you ever told, or did you ever observe any kind of performances that Jack Ruby didn't approve of?

Mr. Palmer.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Let's focus strictly on the kind of joke that would be told in the club. Were there any kind of jokes you learned he didn't permit to be told?

Mr. Palmer.

He wouldn't permit racial or religious jokes of obvious dirty nature. It was not uncommon for one master of ceremonies to tell several of his routine in colored dialect, Negro dialect, or Jewish dialect, but this was