The fact is that as soon as you began to come out, the whole crowd surged forward?
Captain FRITZ. I had turned toward my car to reach for the door to open the rear door, and I just told the two officers to put him right here in the rear of the car when I heard the shot. Mr. Dhority was sitting at the wheel. He was backing my car back, and he was being hindered in backing the car by people getting around and behind it--both officers and other people. And as I started to reach for the door, the shot was fired.

Mr. Hubert.

As I understand it then, when you came down there, you met a condition which you had not anticipated in this sense. That it was your impression that although the news media would be down there, they would be back of that rail?
Captain FRITZ. Had they been back there, everything would have been all right.

Mr. Hubert.

It is your impression that there would be nobody on the jail side of the rail and nobody on the main ramp, Main Street ramp?
Captain FRITZ. That is right; we thought we had clearance there.

Mr. Hubert.

Now you say that when you came outside you caused Oswald and the two guards with him, Mr. Leavelle and Mr. Graves, to halt in the jail office and you went out and called out as to whether it was clear?
Captain FRITZ. A lieutenant was standing there in uniform, and I asked him, and he told me that the security was OK. A detective also gave the same answer.

Mr. Hubert.

That would be Captain Talbert?
Captain FRITZ. No; it wasn't Captain Talbert. I thought it was Captain Talbert at first but it was Lieutenant Wiggins from the jail office.

Mr. Hubert.

You said there was another officer that you asked?
Captain FRITZ. Two officers answered me. A detective answered with this lieutenant.

Mr. Hubert.

The answer was that it was all right?
Captain FRITZ. That it was all right. I presume they haft been told it was all right, because of the way they answered.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you have a conversation just prior to the move about the security?
Captain FRITZ. With the chief; yes, sir.

Mr. Hubert.

Do you remember what he said and what you said about it?
Captain FRITZ. Yes. As I told you, I told him--he asked me were we ready for the transfer. Chief Stevenson and several were there. And Mr. Holmes from the Postal Inspection Office; and I believe one of the Secret Service men; and one of the FBI officers; and several of my officers.
And I told him we were ready to transfer him any time the security was ready in the basement, and he said everything is all right.

Mr. Hubert.

Did he say he would check further, or he just told you?
Captain FRITZ. He just told me. He didn't tell me how he checked.

Mr. Hubert.

But he didn't go and check again?
Captain FRITZ. I don't know. I can't answer that because he left my office. He told me that he and Chief Stevenson would meet me at the county jail.

Mr. Hubert.

Who made the decision as to the actual moment of moving?
Captain FRITZ. Of course, the chief asked me if we were ready. We got ready, because I had told him the night before we would try to be ready at 10 o'clock.

Mr. Hubert.

So you gave the signal to go?
Captain FRITZ. To these officers; yes.

Mr. Hubert.

I think there was one officer ahead of you when you all went down in the elevator?
Captain FRITZ. Lieutenant Swain went out ahead of me, and I was behind Lieutenant Swain, and then my officers and Oswald back of me, one officer on each side, and one behind him.

Mr. Hubert.

Did that group come down from the third floor?

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Last Update: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 21:56:32 CET