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(Testimony of Chief Jesse E. Curry)
Mr. Curry.
No, sir; not that I recall. Fritz and I, I think, discussed this briefly, the possibility of getting that prisoner out of the city hall during the night hours and by another route and slipping him to the jail, but actually Fritz was not too much in favor of this and I more or less left this up to Fritz as to when and how this transfer would be made, because he has in the past transferred many of his prisoners to the county jail and I felt that since it was his responsibility, the prisoner was, to let him decide when and how he wanted to transfer this prisoner.
Mr. Hubert.
Well, you didn't, in any case, give him instructions not to transfer the prisoner at a time when he could not be observed by the press?
Mr. Curry.
No, sir; that's right.
Mr. Hubert.
Is it fair to state that had he done so, it would have been satisfactory to you?
Mr. Curry.
I would not have complained about it.
Mr. Hubert.
Do you know whether Fritz' decision not to move him prior to the time that had been announced to the press was motivated by considerations of the press ?
Mr. Curry.
I don't know whether it was or not. I think this--that he didn't know how long he would be interrogating. I don't believe Fritz wanted to move him at night. I think he wanted to move him in the daytime so that he could see anyone that might be trying to cause him any trouble.
Mr. Hubert.
Your thought is that, therefore, Fritz' decision not to move him at night was dictated by considerations of security?
Mr. Curry.
I believe so; yes.
Mr. Hubert.
Chief, I believe that I ought to offer you the opportunity to state for the record here as an overall proposition what you consider to be the cause of what was obviously a security breakdown?
Mr. Curry.
I think the cause of the breakdown was the fact that Officer Vaughn left his post to assist this Lieutenant Pierce, and I believe Sergeant Dean, and I don't know who else was in the car, as they left the basement of the city hall going the wrong way on the ramp, and Officer Vaughn stepped across the sidewalk which he had been instructed, so I am told, to guard that ramp--to let only police officers or bona fide news media enter there. He momentarily stepped away from his assignment and while he was away from this assignment, our investigation shows that Jack Ruby went behind him and entered the ramp and went to the bottom of the ramp and stood behind some detectives and news media.
Mr. Hubert.
Concerning the security at the top of the Main Street ramp where Vaughn was, what observations have you to make about that means of entry being guarded by one man only instead of, say, more?
Mr. Curry.
Well,-actually, this seemed to be the least risk in our security plan. All of the crowd and vehicles and everything was over on Commerce Street and there was very little over on Main Street, actually very little activity at all. It was only about a 12-foot ramp there that he had to guard.
Mr. Hubert.
And he was standing right in the middle of it ?
Mr. Curry.
Had he stayed on his assignment, I don't see how Ruby could have gotten in.
Mr. Hubert.
Of course, when the Pierce car came up, he obviously had to move away, but your thought is he moved too far away from his assignment?
Mr. Curry.
He moved too far away from his assignment. He apparently was assisting this vehicle to get across the sidewalk, I think it was 10 or 12 feet wide, and into the street. Actually, he should have just stepped to one side and let the vehicle come by.
Now, this officer was put on a polygraph to determine whether or not he knew that Ruby went by him and according to the test, the results of the test, he did not realize that Ruby went by him.
Mr. Hubert.
Chief, in addition to your testimony, I have shown you two documents which I think you have read, and I am marking for identification as follows, to-wit: The first one is a report of an interview of you by FBI Agent Vincent Drain on November 25, the document consisting of two pages, and I am marking on the first page "Dallas, Tex., April 15, 1964, Exhibit 5313, deposition
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