Mr. Hubert.

When was the third time you saw him, and I think the third time would have been the last time, too ?

Mr. Vaughn.

As I recall that's about the last time I have ever seen the fellow.

Mr. Hubert.

I thought you said there were three times?

Mr. Vaughn.

Well, either two or three I couldn't be exact--I believe, like I said, I probably may have seen him more, but you know, just passing him when I was working on the district, but like I say, it would be difficult for me to recall definitely the times--I can recall definitely two times.

Mr. Hubert.

Have you ever been to either of his clubs or any of his clubs?

Mr. Vaughn.

I have been to the Vegas Club, I would say, possibly twice.

Mr. Hubert.

What about the Carousel or the Sovereign ?

Mr. Vaughn.

I didn't even know he had the Carousel.

Mr. Hubert.

The Silver Slipper or any of his other clubs ?

Mr. Vaughn.

I didn't even know he had them.

Mr. Hubert.

On the two occasions that you went to the Vegas, did you see

Mr. Vaughn.

Not that I recall---ever seeing him.

Mr. Hubert.

How long ago were those occasions ?

Mr. Vaughn.

This would also be in 1959.

Mr. Hubert.

So, the last time you really saw him was in December 1961 ?

Mr. Vaughn.

I believe it would be in December 1961--there were other occasions that I was in his club. I was on duty and actually just making a routine check or answering a call there. I had actually never been in his club except on business.

Mr. Hubert.

On those occasions that you did go on business, do you recall having seen him ?

Mr. Vaughn.

No; I don't, I don't recall seeing him.

Mr. Hubert.

When you stated you were posted at the Main Street ramp, by that I take it you mean the exit of the Main Street ramp, that is to say, where it comes out?

Mr. Vaughn.

Yes; out onto the street--onto the sidewalk.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, physically where did you maintain your post?

Mr. Vaughn.

I maintained it inside actually, I would say 2 or 3 feet inside actually--of the ramp.

Mr. Hubert.

In other words, you weren't on the sidewalk?

Mr. Vaughn.

Oh, no; I was inside standing inside the ramp.

Mr. Hubert.

The ramp is about how many feet wide?

Mr. Vaughn.

I would just have to estimate it--I would say it was 12 to 15 feet.

Mr. Hubert.

And you were standing more or less in the middle?

Mr. Vaughn.

In the middle.

Mr. Hubert.

And that was about from 9:30 on?

Mr. Vaughn.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you ever leave that post?

Mr. Vaughn.

The only time when I ever moved out of my position there was when this car which was driven by Lieutenant Pierce exited by that ramp.

Mr. Hubert.

Before we get to that, let me ask you this--you mentioned that on several occasions people came in, identified themselves and you let them through, or you turned away other people?

Mr. Vaughn.

Yes.

Mr. Hubert.

What steps did you take to maintain the security of your post while you were talking to such people so that other people wouldn't sneak through ?

Mr. Vaughn.

I was still standing in the middle of the ramp.

Mr. Hubert.

It would be impossible, you think, for anybody to pass on either side of you ?

Mr. Vaughn.

That's right--without seeing them.

Mr. Hubert.

Now, coming to the time when the automobile passed through, tell us what you know about that?

Mr. Vaughn.

Well, I would say it was approximately a quarter or a little past--about 18 minutes past 11, somewhere around there I wouldn't be exact on the time.