Mr. Griffin.

Did you have occasion to talk to Officer Vaughn on that day
Chief BATCHELOR. No; over on top of the ramp?

Mr. Griffin.

Yes.
Chief BATCHELOR. No; as a matter of fact, I never have talked with Vaughn. And I wasn't talking to Dean in the nature of interrogating. He voluntarily told me this.

Mr. Griffin.

Was anybody else present when Dean told you that?
Chief BATCHELOR. I don't recall that there was. I don't think there was.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you recall where this conversation occurred?
Chief BATCHELOR. No; it was there in the city hall, but I don't remember exactly where. It was probably up on the third floor.

Mr. Griffin.

Now I am going to mark for identification, "Dallas, Tex., Chief Batchelor, March 23, 1964, Exhibit 5002."

Can you tell us briefly what that is, Chief?
Chief BATCHELOR. That is a monthly assignment board or bulletin, which has the names of all the members of the police department in it and their assignments for the month of November 1963.

Mr. Griffin.

Is that a true and accurate roster of the people who were employed in the department on the day that Ruby shot Oswald ?
Chief BATCHELOR. It would be, with the exception of any few that might have been reassigned, or any few that might have, in the course of the month, been transferred from one division to another, which occurs frequently. But for the most part it is correct.

Mr. Griffin.

Or, also a few that had been hired?
Chief BATCHELOR. Or a few that trod been hired during that month. They are not on there; yes, sir.

Mr. Griffin.

Now you and I have spoken at some length during the last day, not counting the length of time we spent here. Do you recall that in your office this morning we talked some about security measures in the protection of the President?
Chief BATCHELOR. Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Do you have any suggestions that you would make as to how, as a result of your experience, you think the President might be more effectively protected?
Chief BATCHELOR. I don't know how you would correct this exactly. One of the problems that we experienced was the fact that such, of such a short time to do some of the planning that we had. We didn't know until just one afternoon, actually, in terms of Love Field security, actually where the President's plane would be placed.
We didn't know until 2 days before his arrival what the parade route would be. This posed some problem in terms of assignment of personnel and properly instructing personnel as to what their procedures should be.

I think one thing that would be helpful would be for a standard general procedure of things that those responsible for protection of the President could put out to police departments such as certain standard types of coverage that would alway apply.

Mr. Griffin.

Can you give us any example from your own experience where this would have been useful on this unfortunate trip?
Chief BATCHELOR. One thing you need in a situation like this is explicit written instructions to officers as to such things as watching the crowd rather than the President. This is a general accepted thing in most police departments. Sometimes you have new personnel that comes in and they need to be told this specifically. We had an instance in which we were asked to guard all of ,the overpasses, railroad and vehicular, and we instructed the officers verbally that they were to let no unauthorized personnel on these overpasses. But there was no definition of what "authorized personnel" was. And in one case, there were people on an overpass which the President had never reached.

Mr. Griffin.

Was this the triple railroad overpass at the base of Elm Street?
Chief BATCHELOR. Yes; they would have just gone under, or would have gone

under momentarily had he not been shot.