Mr. Ball.

Then did you see a gun?

Mr. Applin.

Yes, sir; but only--there was one gun. The pistol. It came into view before any of the other officers got there.

Mr. Ball.

That is what I mean. What do you say happened about that? Who pulled a gun?

Mr. Applin.

Well, anyhow, the officer was facing this way [indicating] and Oswald was facing this way [indicating]. And then the gun was pointed out that way [indicating].

Mr. Ball.

Wait a minute. I can't follow you when you say it was "this way," sir. You told me that this officer asked Oswald to stand up?

Mr. Applin.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Did he stand up?

Mr. Applin.

Yes, sir; he did.

Mr. Ball.

Then did he put his hand some place on Oswald?

Mr. Applin.

Yes, sir; along about

Mr. Ball.

Where?

Mr. Applin.

I guess about his hips.

Mr. Ball.

Then what did Oswald do?

Mr. Applin.

He took a right-hand swing at him.

Mr. Ball.

What did the officer do?

Mr. Applin.

The officer grabbed him then.

Mr. Ball.

Had you seen the pistol up to that time?

Mr. Applin.

No, sir; there was not one in view then.

Mr. Ball.

How soon after that did you see the pistol?

Mr. Applin.

I guess it was about--I guess it was about 2 or 3 seconds.

Mr. Ball.

Who pulled the pistol?

Mr. Applin.

I guess it was Oswald, because--for one reason, that he had on a short sleeve shirt, and I seen a man's arm that was connected to the gun.

Mr. Ball.

What did the officer do?

Mr. Applin.

Well, the officer was scuffling with him there, and----

Mr. Ball.

Did you hear anything?

Mr. Applin.

Well, about the only thing I heard was the snap of the gun and the officer saying, "Here he is."

Mr. Ball.

You heard the snap of a gun?

Mr. Applin.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Are you familiar with guns?

Mr. Applin.

Well, yes, sir; I am familiar with a few guns.

Mr. Ball.

Pistols? Have you ever shot a pistol?

Mr. Applin.

Yes, sir; I have shot my daddy's nine-shot .22 pistol.

Mr. Ball.

Sounded like a hammer of a pistol failing?

Mr. Applin.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Then what happened after that? You say several officers came down?

Mr. Applin.

Yes, sir; they started wrestling and scuffling with him.

Mr. Ball.

How many of them?

Mr. Applin.

Well, there was about five officers, I believe.

Mr. Ball.

Did you see any officers strike him?

Mr. Applin.

I seen one strike him with a shotgun.

Mr. Ball.

How did he do it?

Mr. Applin.

He grabbed the muzzle of the gun and drawed it back and swung and hit him in the back.

Mr. Ball.

With what?
M. APPLIN. With the butt end of the gun.

Mr. Ball.

Looked like a hard blow?

Mr. Applin.

Yes, sir; it--I guess-it was. You could--yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

And he struck Oswald where?

Mr. Applin.

In the back.

Mr. Ball.

What part of the back?

Mr. Applin.

Well, somewheres along in the middle of the back, somewheres.

Mr. Ball.

With the butt end of a shotgun?

Mr. Applin.

Yes, sir.