Mr. Murphy.

No, not that I could tell.
Mr. BALL. Can you tell me what direction the policemen were looking who were at Position (4) and (5)?

Mr. Murphy.

They appeared to be looking in an easterly direction also.

Mr. Ball.

The direction of the motorcade?

Mr. Murphy.

Yes.
Mr. BALL. And did you see other individuals on that railroad overpass except the ones you have described?

Mr. Murphy.

No, just that group that I have described.

Mr. Ball.

Now, you say you heard something---heard shots?

Mr. Murphy.

Yes.

Mr. Ball.

Describe to me your best recollection as to what you heard?

Mr. MURPHY. Well, I heard--I knew they were shots as soon as I heard them, but I thought at first it was--it sounded like a shotgun, and then I got the three shots and there were so many echoes and everything-then I did determine
it sounded more like a rifle. I do quite a bit of hunting and I determined it sounded more like a rifle.

Mr. Ball.

Those shots came from what direction?

Mr. Murphy.

Well, just from the direction I was looking---that's all I could tell. They came from an easterly direction, from where I was standing.

Mr. Ball.

And were there echoes?

Mr. Murphy.

Yes, quite a few.

Mr. Ball.

Did the men who were on the overpass at Position (5) do anything?

Mr. Murphy.

I don't recall---on that overpass---right after the shots, I did see then a group of people running up the side of this embankment on Elm and running. That would be here---right in here.

Mr. Ball.

To the north of Elm?

Mr. Murphy.

To the north of Elm.
Mr. BALL. Would you put an arrow showing the direction they were running and mark that arrow as "7"--that's the direction you Saw people running?
Mr. MURPHY. (Marked diagram as requested by Counsel Ball.) Yes, they were running up in this direction and then in behind this Book Depository. Oh, I could tell a lot of them were photographers, because I could see their cameras in their hands and then a number of other people, and then I did see some officers also running in that direction.
Mr. BALL Did you see what the railroad men did who were at Position (6) on your map?
Mr. MURPHY. No; because right at that time that traffic began backing up on the freeway and I had turned in to try to keep them moving, but I found that I couldn't move them because it was blocked down below me, north of me and there was traffic just stacked up from where the other officers had it stopped there.

Mr. Ball.

How long did you stay at your position?

Mr. MURPHY. Well, I stayed until, I guess, it was about maybe 3 minutes after we heard the shots and then the broadcast came over the radio that there had been a shooting--the President had been shot---and then I went towards the Book Depository.
I got on my motor and went towards the Book Depository then---off of the freeway; and then was there up around the Book Depository for the next---
I would say hour or hour and a half at least.

Mr. Ball.

Did you talk to any witnesses?
Mr. MURPHY. I did pick up or talk to three or four people that said they had seen things and said they heard different things, and I took them to the sheriffs office across the street.

Mr. Ball.

Do you know what their names were?

Mr. MURPHY. No, sir; I couldn't tell you. I turned them over to the investigators there with the sheriffs department---the district attorney's investigators, that's who they were.

Mr. Ball.

You didn't make any notes of their names?

Mr. Murphy.

No, sir; I didn't

Mr. Ball.

Do you remember now what any of them told you?

Mr. Murphy.

Well, one man in particular---he was standing on Elm---he was